I wonder how many of you will actually read this......mwhahaha.....
calls are funny things. not phone calls, God calls. you know - THE "CALL."
I realized a few weeks ago, through reading something for Perspectives, that you don't need a call from God in order to do something for God. this couple went to China with their three little kids because they learned about the need and decided they were willing. they didn't feel some super-secret, special kind of draw to China, or to missions. nothing really changed inside their heads or hearts. they were just willing.
so now it drives me crazy when people say they don't want to do something because they don't feel "called" to do it. for Heaven's sake, decide which side of the fence you're sitting on, and stop sitting - get up a run full speed for that side's cause. jump in wherever you can. find something you're good at and do it, or find something you're passionate about and do it, or find something that needs to be done that nobody else is doing and do it. do we really expect that we need to sit around and wait for God to tell us all individually what to do? that's what He left us the Bible for.....
which kind of leads into some of those crazy things that have been floating around my brain recently. I guess you might as well know about them. it's not like I have anything else to post about anyway (school is the same, home life is the same, we haven't gone anywhere or done anything interesting recently).
but anyway.
I've been seeing churches in a completely different way recently. probably because of taking Perspectives. in fact, I've more or less stopped calling them churches. because really, they are The Church, The Body of Christ, in multiple forms and families scattered around in different places (painfully disproportionately, but that's another post). reading through Acts, you see the most beautiful picture God ever drew, in His people throughout the known world in that day helping each other. sending aid - whether financial or in different ministry support - to these other believers they may never have met before. every church was a sister church to every other church.
so I'm incredibly frustrated at how our culture has squeezed "church" into this little mold that is so individualistic, so unique to itself, so unwilling to ask other individual churches for help, or offer the resources they have to those who are struggling.
take worship, for example. my church has three extremely talented worship teams. we have a crazy fun time every week, whether we're on the stage or in the audience. we take talent and run with it, whether that means a quiet hymn on the piano with an incredible vocalist, or a two-minute long electric guitar solo while people greet each other.
the church I came from struggles a lot in the worship team area. I was on the worship team when we went there (and back then I knew about seven chords and should never have been allowed on the team, haha), and so was my mom. we had about three instrumentalists and four vocalists, same people every week. we sucked (to put it bluntly) and were all burned out. and to this day they have the same struggles, and don't really have a worship leader. just a bunch of people singing and playing.
so I'm sitting here seeing my church and their church as one body. with that viewpoint, I know in my heart that it's not right for one part of the body to be so incredibly healthy while another part is dying of leprosy. if we ever want to look like a generation of Acts believers, we have to break the mold of individualism and share the talent around. this doesn't mean transplanting one of our worship teams into their church. but what it should mean is mobilizing the talent that is there to get involved (maybe they're all still sitting in pews waiting for "the call"), and teaching what we can from experience. it might mean helping them with a boost in that area of the budget.
the same thing is being done in our area with men's ministry. some man from our church had a vision to unite with men's ministries all around the plateau - not to make them little clones of our church's men's ministry, but to help them get better, and grow their own visions. mobilizing people already there. sharing resources and talent. running. full speed.
alright, that should keep you guys busy until I return to earth after my piano recital. I can't really think straight right now. but I will be back. promise.
Wow, that was a really good post Kacy! Rather thought provoking really. Kinda makes me wonder what sort of stuff has passed my way that I probably *should* have done but didn't think twice about.
ReplyDeleteYeah. I've never really felt called to anything in my life... I just kind of go by what I know about and am good at and want to do. I've always really envied people like you who had a firm conviction that they were supposed to be doing something specific for God. That's pretty cool, too. God works in various ways I guess.
ReplyDeleteAwesome post!
Kacy, do you think it's right to ignore an error in someone else's thinking for the sake of the united church you're talking about?
ReplyDeleteWhat if that error starts to indoctrinate its self into the minds of the Christians in your church?
I'm not sure that I exactly would argue that way, but I'm wondering how you would answer.
well, it really depends on the situation, I think. like, if it's a demoninational thing....I would say that a lot can be ignored and got over. I don't think you can really call it an error in someone's thinking when it's one of those gray areas that whole denominations argue over.
ReplyDeletebut if it's obvious screwed up theology that goes against the Bible, then you have problems. I think I would leave that to pastors to figure out what to do.
as to knowing what you're going to do with your life - it can be nice, but I guess what I've been realizing is that I've spent most of my life just "waiting" until I'm old enough to pursue this call thingy. that's wasting a lot of time that I should be using to serve God here. and suppose I'm so set on going to India that I'm not open to God changing the plan, should that happen. there are problems both ways.
I guess my whole point is that we should be following God with all we have in the "right now," wherever we are. planning for the future is good, but we shouldn't set those plans in stone.
i like the idea of the united body of Christ. it seems so much better then the bitter divisiveness of denominations and sects etc.
ReplyDeletei wonder how much more effective our witness would be to the world if we didn't look like we can't even get along with fellow christians.
and for the error question, i would say if it's not essential to salvation and it's not directly designated a sin (like ten commandments kind of sin), then it's not important enough.
don't hit me, but you don't have to believe in TULIP to be saved.
well I won't hit you.....because I don't lol.
ReplyDeleteyeah, I think you hit the heart of the matter there - how effective is our message if we can't even get along with each other half the time?
alright, I will stop fuming now.
wow . . .. a lot to think about.
ReplyDeleteIts hard when you grow up in a church, and then come to the point where you actually question what you have been taught. My entire life I have had all this stuff fed to me but never really thought about it. I need to decide what I believe for myself. Look through the bible and find biblical proof for the TULIP . . .ect. ect. I need to figure out what I believe. Challenge my beliefs . . . its wierd its like waking up and realizing that your your own person and you need to decide some things . . .
yes, life starts getting extremely tough when you reach that point Katie. but it also gets more interesting and it feels more freeing to know why you believe in things, even if you happen to change your mind from what you used to believe, or what your family believes.
ReplyDeleteand it's important not just to look for "proof" for what you believe, but examine what other people think and their "proof" too. you might change your mind. or you may end up sitting on the fence, which in some cases is really ok too.
Everyone is human with a human nature, and not everyone is going to agree on everything. Since Theology and doctrine are so important, each church must stand strong on what they believe, and integrating with other churches with differing beliefs could compromise the churches individual doctrines. Yes, it would be easier if we all did get along and believed the same thing, but the reality of it is, we don't.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that it's a bad idea for churches to fellowship and unit, it's just that human nature limits us.
And what would you, Kacy, define as an appropriate example to sit on the fence as opposed to other instances?
Well, I think different churches can help each other without compromising their beliefs. I'm not talking about merging churches, just helping out in areas where one church may have more talent than another, and doing it reciprocally. Two people don't have to have the same theology to worship God together. If another church was to come in and have a lasting presence in a community of believers, then I would say that doctrine is more important in that situation. but it shouldn't always come first. there are things that people should just agree to disagree upon, and not let it get in the way of helping each other.
ReplyDeleteas for sitting on the fence stuff....gosh it's harder to think of examples now. but I guess what I was trying to say is that it's alright not to know everything you believe in right away. you may look at both sides and decide you don't know which one is right, or if either is right. knowing that all the stuff we come up with as humans will have a flaw somewhere, I just don't think we should be in a hurry to take sides on everything. I think you've all grown up with more doctrine/theological training than I have - some stuff I'm still undecided on whether I believe it or not. but I've gotten to a point where that's ok. it doesn't really affect my relationship with God. I'm content to wait till Heaven for it.....at which point I won't care anyway.
so while having a set theology is fairly important for churches, I don't think it should get in the way of more important relational things. definitely get all the stuff essential to salvation figured out. past that, I don't think it's that important when it comes to church-to-church relationships.
does that all make sense? you don't have to agree with me, I just want to make sure I'm being clear.
wow . . . *goes to read bible*
ReplyDeleteHaha, I think Katie has the right idea.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Katie. Let me try to figure out what I am going to say without sounding critical. It is a general statement for everybody not just one person.
ReplyDeleteSometimes we say a lot about what we think, but what we really need to do is see what the Bible says about it. We say "I think" or "my opinion" a lot and forget sometimes we should look to see what the Bible says. The Bible is what God thinks and what His opinion is and is uninfluenced by what man thinks.
I'm not sure exactly how that fits into this discussion . . . But what does the Bible say about church theology and church to church relationships?
I just know that there comes a point where this becomes practically difficult- when you get down to the manner of worship and infant baptism and things like that. Because it goes against people's conciences to participate in rituals other churches find acceptable... I'm not saying we should love them less, but there's a point to which we can't just unite with them and accept their way of doing things. We should accept THEM as people, but as far as uniting the church... am I making sense?
ReplyDelete(Insert two cents/) I agree with Ellen on the church thing. (End two cents/)
ReplyDeleteAs for Lucy's question, "What does the Bible say about church theology and church to church relationships?" I'm not sure we can really answer that question. The churches in acts and throughout the letters of the old testament had people who were intimately connected (not .... relationship-wise, 'cause we are too, but,) face-to-face, I-ask-you-answer sessions with Jesus Christ Himself. Such as Peter and Paul (just two). We no longer have that ability. Yes we can pray, but God does not really talk to us directly anymore, so we end up with “I think” or “I believe” instead of “I know”. We can get a lot of information from the books of the bible, but, (obviously, because we are actually having this discussion) it is not fully clear.
(Insert humble opinion/) this is a little bit why I like denominational churches, as the more minds in the bible the better. Though I understand it can go the other way around because men err. (End humble opinion/)
Either way, please tell me where I’m going wrong :)
Well, as to what the Bible has to say about it, that's kind of what inspired this whole post for me. the believers in Acts were united - they were one body. and they made it work, even though they had all kinds of messed up problems with theology, different kinds of people, differing opinions, etc. but reading through Acts, you can really see how they worked it out one step at a time with God's help.
ReplyDeleteLike I said before, I'm not talking about joining seperate churches to create a new church. just joining resources in order to build up the body of Christ.
When reading the Bible, we see that The Church didn't start as many seperate churches. it started with twelve guys, who in one day grew to three thousand guys. they only split up because there wasn't room for all of them. but they still very much thought of themselves as one organization, not a bunch of individual groups. it's basically small groups on a big scale.
and as a side note, I would disagree that God doesn't speak directly anymore. but I'm not sure if we want to jump into that discussion right now.....
;)
Umm, so who is our paul? who is our peter? the majority of the new testament is the apostles sending letters of correction and guidance to the church. We have the bible, and we have ourselves. thats everyone i can see at the moment.... i'm a little blind :)
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jake. The churches in Acts Kacy, you said inspired this line of thought, were united and so on. But, like Jake said, they had the apostles with face to face and divine and inspired instruction and guidance from God to in turn guide the churches. Well, we don't have any apostles, so in a sense we're blindly feeling around a dark room.
ReplyDeleteOh, and the problem man runs into, Lucy, is interpretation.
yeah, I agree that it seems tougher now. but I'm pretty sure God didn't mean for the church to fall apart into a bunch of individual things floating around blindly as soon as the apostles died. and it's not like every single church could just go to Peter and Paul to fix their problems whenever they wanted. Actually, a lot of the churches were fixing their own problems, looking only to God and the Bible for guidance. it was mostly the really big stuff (circumcision, etc.) that they went to the apostles for. the church was meant to be self-supporting, with Christ as the main head, not the apostles. sure, they were needed to start the church, but they weren't the end. other natural leaders were to come after them - it's not like they were super-Christians who couldn't be replaced by other believers after their death.
ReplyDeleteI would say today's version of Peter, Paul, etc. is, in denomonations, the bishops/deacons/whatever, and in churches it would be pastors and elders. Paul knew what he was doing when he set that structure up.
What do we have today? well, we have all of the early church's mistakes to learn from - in the Bible. You said, Jake, that most of the NT is letters of correction, and we don't have people writing those to us anymore. but we have the whole Bible left to us - what more do we need?
Also, the apostles weren't the only people to whom God spoke and gave commands. all of history is filled with godly people who listened to God's voice and followed Him, leading His church.
I guess basically my whole point is that there shouldn't be that much different between the church in Acts and the church today. God didn't mean for there to be a big difference. He left us the Bible and the Holy Spirit for guidance - they just got things started. we're really only here until we finish the task God left us. when you look at it that way, it's really up to us (the whole body of Christ) how much longer we're on Earth. and to me, it all goes hand in hand - it's all about our passion for God and our love for each other, both Christians and non-Christians. I just envision a healthier church in America. when churches unite together and help each other, that's when they start reaching out to their communities (and the rest of the world too).
(sorry for the hecka long comment - I guess I had a lot to say!)
We still have a paul and peter. Read the Bible people!!!!! What Paul and Peter said is still in the bible its not like it disapeered . . .
ReplyDeletethank you Katie, for summing up my novel-sized comment in three sentences. :)
ReplyDeletelol . .. . summing it up for people like me . .
ReplyDeleteDo you believe in God's sovereignty Kacy?
ReplyDeleteyes, definitely. why?
ReplyDeleteI guess there are probably lots of little twists in that concept that are just waiting for a debate, of course....
yes, there definately are . . . and I think I know where Lucy at least wants to go with that question . . . watch out!
ReplyDeleteI did read this, I jut didn't comment.
But I would like to add that I'm perfectly aware that you do not have to be a Calvinist to be saved. Just so you all know.
I think.....
ReplyDeleteI think I'm going to just make a new post on here. this one is getting old. :)
Haha Beth! ;-)
ReplyDeleteHow could God not "mean" for something to happen? It sounds like He is not in control of what is going on. Since God is sovereign, than there is a reason He allowed for certain things to happen within and with the church.
I think I don't want to comment . . I am afraid of saying something wrong . . .
ReplyDeleteOk so if God is sovereign, than what is your view of Election?
ReplyDeleteYou go Katie! <3
ReplyDeleteOh wait, was that question for me??
well it was more like a question for everyone to think about . . .
ReplyDelete